Regarding Me and My Mod…

Just Cause 2 Mods Forums News Regarding Me and My Mod…

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    • #83849
      mandella644
      Member

      Hello everyone.

      You all may have noticed that I have been away for a long time. This is because I had decided to retire from JC2 modding. I’ve pretty much lost interest at this point, not to mention the fact that guilt has overcome me with regard to my Island in Chaos / Crazy Civilian AI mod. People seem to be dissatisfied with the new version for various reasons, and it’s really bugging me, even though I’ve tried my best to tear myself away from the whole fiasco/debacle.

      I would like to announce/confess right here and right now the amount of content that I’d borrowed to create the mod. No nice words, no justifications like “oh, but it was my talent and my talent alone that devised this compilation of sorts”. I’ve tried my best to make things right with the new update, which was, to tell you the honest truth, created by me almost exclusively in an attempt to announce/publicize my admittance to the borrowed content, and to give the mod’s description a group-effort feel.

      I hope people don’t feel frustrated with me as a result of the miscommunication that took place regarding the mod and its recent life…I wanted so desperately for everyone that was interested in JC2 to learn about my mod because of its chaotic nature. I once called it “JC2-MP in SP” on the JC2-MP IRC, and that was received as a fairly accurate description. It’s something I was very proud of and wanted everyone to see, and I may – no, I did take my efforts to put it in the public eye too far at times.

      I hope there are no hard feelings at this stage. If you have any questions, I’ll be hanging around this thread for a week or so – just to make sure all is well.

      –mandella

      Edit: Just noticed my karma. Yikes. I went from, like, positive 12 to -6 while I wasn’t even posting. Guess I deserve that… :(

    • #101565
      1_dylan
      Participant
      mandella644 wrote:
      …I would like to announce/confess right here and right now the amount of content that I’d borrowed to create the mod. No nice words, no justifications like “oh, but it was my talent and my talent alone that devised this compilation of sorts”. I’ve tried my best to make things right with the new update, which was, to tell you the honest truth, created by me almost exclusively in an attempt to announce/publicize my admittance to the borrowed content, and to give the mod’s description a group-effort feel…

      I haven’t seen anyone complaining about you borrowing other people’s mods. In fact if you used one of my mods I would be wrapped. Your mod is awesome. Sorry about what I said in Zenin’s post about your mod. When Capo (before he edited his comment) did point it out. I’m sorry these things have happened to you.

      (I upped your karma. It seems someone else did, too.)

    • #101572
      mandella644
      Member
      1_dylan wrote:
      mandella644 wrote:
      …I would like to announce/confess right here and right now the amount of content that I’d borrowed to create the mod. No nice words, no justifications like “oh, but it was my talent and my talent alone that devised this compilation of sorts”. I’ve tried my best to make things right with the new update, which was, to tell you the honest truth, created by me almost exclusively in an attempt to announce/publicize my admittance to the borrowed content, and to give the mod’s description a group-effort feel…

      I haven’t seen anyone complaining about you borrowing other people’s mods. In fact if you used one of my mods I would be wrapped. Your mod is awesome. Sorry about what I said in Zenin’s post about your mod. When Capo (before he edited his comment) did point it out. I’m sorry these things have happened to you.

      (I upped your karma. It seems someone else did, too.)

      Thank you for your kind response. To be honest, it’s possible that all the negativity is in my head. Though it has shown itself at least to some degree in the comments section of the mod and in my inbox.

      Also, to clear things up with regard to the competition…rules weren’t broken…promise. I threw the idea of another competition at Zenin since there hadn’t been one in years, and ended up asking if I could submit my recently added mod to the contest. Everyone who entered had a fantastic mod, and I was very fortunate to win. The money I won went to the JC2-MP devs, btw. :)

    • #101573
      1_dylan
      Participant
      mandella644 wrote:
      Thank you for your kind response. To be honest, it’s possible that all the negativity is in my head. Though it has shown itself at least to some degree in the comments section of the mod and in my inbox.

      There have been some negative comments on your mod. Complaints that say things like civilians don’t spawn. IDK, everyone wants mods every different way. That’s why I took a majority of my mods down. It sort of became chaos for me. I’ve have been through what you have, too.

      mandella644 wrote:
      Also, to clear things up with regard to the competition…rules weren’t broken…promise. I threw the idea of another competition at Zenin since there hadn’t been one in years, and ended up asking if I could submit my recently added mod to the contest. Everyone who entered had a fantastic mod, and I was very fortunate to win. The money I won went to the JC2-MP devs, btw. :)

      If Zenin accepted it then it’s perfectly fine. Also, thanks for donating to the MP project it helped it become possible.

    • #101566
      CapoCapo
      Participant

      Let me begin this post with an apology to all the viewers out there who are personally committed to upholding the highest standards of ethics to modding. That being said, you know what they say about “a few bad apples.”

      Misconduct. Well folks, this one is a hot button. Ask the average modder, and they are totally unaware that such a thing ever happens. After all were doing the same thing learning and stitching thing together. Some of us are committed to modding some are learners some are leechers and they are some that think they know it all upholding the great. A lot have retired and became helpers ensuring that the single player of JC2 stood alive and that it’s aways good to see new creations and modders.

      But misconducting and misdeeds happen, and they happen more frequently than any normal modder would imagine.

      Let’s look at some data. I myself had to check a few peoples mod in order to more understand my own work and learn. We just have to face it and let the viewers be as they give feeds so you can work harder to ensure your mod has reached its limit of endorsement.

    • #101574
      1_dylan
      Participant

    • #101575
      voxbox13voxbox13
      Participant

      Hey mandella – I appreciate the candor with which you wrote your post. I just wanted to quickly say that I believe you have always been very forthcoming with the fact that some pieces were borrowed from other mods (and I remember you always went out of your way to give proper credit), sometimes other mods simply provided inspiration for your creation. But I want to stress that last word: Creation. You mixed and matched a lot of various content and blended it into something exciting and popular. Great art isn’t always about being “unique” … It’s taking inspiration from others and putting your own twist – your own signature – on it. Not all music, films, tv shows, or even video games are completely unique from other creative works that have come before. There is virtually always something borrowed, interpreted, referenced, refined, built-upon, or simply used as inspiration (consciously or unconsciously).
      What you did was – in my personal opinion – fantastic. Simple as that.

    • #101580
      mandella644
      Member
      voxbox13 wrote:
      Hey mandella – I appreciate the candor with which you wrote your post. I just wanted to quickly say that I believe you have always been very forthcoming with the fact that some pieces were borrowed from other mods (and I remember you always went out of your way to give proper credit), sometimes other mods simply provided inspiration for your creation. But I want to stress that last word: Creation. You mixed and matched a lot of various content and blended it into something exciting and popular. Great art isn’t always about being “unique” … It’s taking inspiration from others and putting your own twist – your own signature – on it. Not all music, films, tv shows, or even video games are completely unique from other creative works that have come before. There is virtually always something borrowed, interpreted, referenced, refined, built-upon, or simply used as inspiration (consciously or unconsciously).
      What you did was – in my personal opinion – fantastic. Simple as that.

      Thank you very much for your kind words. :)

      I feel like some more weight has been lifted from my shoulders. :cheer:

    • #101567
      Art Blade
      Member

      Hello Mandella,

      you brought the fun back to my game. :) I hadn’t played it for a few years but for some reason installed it again and, looking for the mods I used to use, I happened upon your great mod. Whatever had happened (“me and my mod..”) I hope that you haven’t lost the appetite and humour ;)

      I think everyone is entitled to screw up big time, once, and it can happen to anyone, and I think it doesn’t matter if you did. The more important thing is to learn from it so one doesn’t make the same mistake twice. From what I read I think all you wanted was to make everyone happy and have the same fun you had when you created and played with your mod and you were enthusiastic about it so you wanted to share that joy with everyone.

      You certainly got me, I’m having a blast with your mod :)

    • #101568
      Art Blade
      Member

      For some reason I keep returning, expecting to see Mandella reply. I have a feeling that these few posts here are not enough to heal the pain.. and that it needs some more than just those few posts. Maybe you guys from the staff could send an email to Mandela pointing to this topic/thread? At least to show that there is support, see now there is +3 Karma.. ;) Cheers

    • #101668
      mandella644
      Member

      Hey. First off, thanks for what you said. It means a lot. :)

      I quit JC2 modding on my own behalf. I no longer enjoy it. Video game modding is fun, but is undeniably a thankless task. Of course I get showered with praise for the enjoyment that my work has given to others, but I feel like spending day after day trying to figure out how I can force JC2 to continue to continue to entertain me even after over a thousand hours loses its kick after awhile. There’s only so much you can mod, and as a great modder on this forum said years ago, if it’s a great idea that’s actually possible with the tools we have, somebody’s probably already done it.

      Moral lesson about modding incoming! You’ve been warned…

      Modding is not about making a game better. Even texture mods are just experience enhancers. People on the developmental teams of video games are hired, yes, hired, to make sure the team ensures that the game conforms to the developers’ original vision. The game is built around that vision, and that’s why there are some people out there who are opposed to modding. Generally devs are positive about it since it increases the game’s lifespan, but avid fans can get iffy when they see aspects of their favorite games blatantly exploited, and that’s really what any negativity comes down to. Does Island in Chaos actually make JC2 better? Nope. Nada. Would I suggest the mod to someone who’s never touched the game? Absolutely not! Even though I included my save file to skip story stuff in the mod’s description, I don’t support the notion that anyone should buy a game for mods. That’s one of the reasons why I am deeply disturbed by the JC2-MP mod, when I really, really shouldn’t be. Without a story, be it good or bad, a game is a tech demo, at least in my opinion.

      I once uploaded a mod called “Rico on Drugs” that I was not proud of. While I to this day question my decision of taking it down, I wholeheartedly agree that it went too far. I’m pretty sure there are videos up on YouTube of it, so you can still see it in action. It essentially takes any challenge away from the game and throws everything at you at once. Anything even vaguely boring looking has been re-textured to look whack-o and colorful. This mod made me realize that I was done.

      I was also on the Just Cause 2 Multiplayer team for a long time. I don’t know why Trix let me on, especially since I was a bleeding idiot back then (yes, in 2012; I’ve grown a lot since then as a person). Anyways, if you compare early versions of JC2-MP to my mod at any stage the similarities will be evident. In my opinion, the mod shined the most in its 2012 revival video. That’s when I really got into it. I’d seen the mod in 2010 before it temporarily disappeared, but this was all new. Some notable attributes were the inclusion of the player “name tags” from the game itself and the very simple, unobtrusive UI. Most people supported the mod all the way through, myself included, but at some points I began to question the path the mod was taking. Was this path inevitable? Certainly. The mod is quite obviously a continuation of the GTA:SA MP mod SA-MP and therefore its development would conform to that of its spiritual predecessor. I have no complaints to the devs. They did what they should. And nothing can change that.

      My gripe was with features like teleportation and boost. These features remove an aspect of JC2 that I can’t put my finger on, even though I’ve put a ton of thought into it. When you see crazy things happening in the base game they are happening as they would in real life, at least to a certain degree. The physics engine, like that of most open world games, emulates the physics of the real world, and this makes fantastic things seem, well, fantastic! When the game engine’s ability to flawlessly render terrain even when the player is rapidly moving across the map are exploited, something is lost. Being able to warp to a friend or an interesting location on the map instantly takes away part of the experience as well. This isn’t some intended experience though, it just, well, happened during the tests. Here’s one of the first YouTube videos I saw of JC2-MP aside from the initial revival trailer. Tell me, what’s special about what’s happening to the player? If he were able to warp to his friend and magically spawn any vehicle of any color instantly, would the experience be the same? The novelty would probably last for a single episode.

      Am I saying that I hate modding? No way. I love modding. I’m already excited to install mods in upcoming games that I will inevitably purchase. Do you understand why I’m done now, though? I’ve gone to completely and utterly unnecessary lengths and thoroughly wasted your time to tell you that I’ve finally conceived a fully developed perspective of modding, and this perspective does not involve the desire to put time and effort into further modding. Am I happy with the mod I have created? YES. Definitely. I hope it provides fun for all those who install it in the future. I do not feel guilty about it anymore. I understand what I’ve done wrong and what I’ve done right. I understand who is needlessly complaining and who is genuinely concerned about a certain attribute of the mod.

      I thank you all once again for shedding some much needed light on a dark situation and I hope you will take something away from what I’ve written.

    • #101674
      1_dylan
      Participant
      mandella644 wrote:

      I quit JC2 modding on my own behalf. I no longer enjoy it. Video game modding is fun, but is undeniably a thankless task. Of course I get showered with praise for the enjoyment that my work has given to others, but I feel like spending day after day trying to figure out how I can force JC2 to continue to continue to entertain me even after over a thousand hours loses its kick after awhile…

      Same here. I do like modding, it is fun but you do get a lot of negativity from other poeple as well. I’m a sh*t modder, I never discovered anything. I just took what I learnt and tried to make a game changing experience out of it – that’s what lead to me retiring from JC2 modding. I tried to make something entertaining, to entertain me, I tried to make it more of a shooter game as well as explosive game. But JC2 is just a game about explosions and after a while it becomes repetitve and boring. I wanted to change the game so it could be about cool battles and big wars too, but it’s not JC2 (no matter what you change it will never be) and after a while you become bored; that’s why I now develop games.

      Christofer Sundberg said that any game without replay value is not worth buying, what a big hypocrit he is.

      mandella644 wrote:
      … There’s only so much you can mod, and as a great modder on this forum said years ago, if it’s a great idea that’s actually possible with the tools we have, somebody’s probably already…

      That is probably the most truthul thing I’ve ever heard. No matter what idea you’ve come up with, no matter how much thought or how unique you think it is, someone’s already created it. That’s why I also was turned away from JC2 modding, it was as if my mods were clones of mods. Nothing new.

      I don’t mean to discourage people from modding, but this is my personal opinion.

      Mandella, even of you aren’t proud of what you’ve done or aren’t entertained, other people are because of you. You turned this game into something more exciting. You brought me and many other people hundreds of hours of entertainment. You should be proud of what you have done and not let the negative outweigh the positive.

    • #101569
      Art Blade
      Member

      Hey Mandella,

      that was almost unexpected, you actually popped up and replied, which is nice — thanks for that.

      I read your post with interest and understand your position. However, it sounded a tad depressed, I could virtually see the black clouds over your head, heh heh :) I’d take it easy. Modding may have different reasons. I can see that one reason might be cheating the game as in unlimited ammo or all weapons unlocked and for free which at the time serves for quick fun if you want to just fire up the game and get what you want right away, instant soul food. Another reason might be to change stuff, like some people want more “reality” and change weapon characteristics, others want the opposite such as cars on nitro and steroids. And there is the pure fun factor, like having NPCs act like crazy.. and while we’re at it, put everything in the mix. I think it’s fun to create a mod or three and combining mods. It’s really nice if people share their creations so that others who can’t create mods may at least use what is on offer, that’s what makes this site here so great — all you want, anything you like, it’s here. Thanks to people like you.

      However. It’s all about gaming. About playing. About having fun and enjoying oneself. Apparently some people seem to have forgot about all that and take things way too seriously. Even the ownership thingy.. it is a matter of how someone tells somebody something. Curiously enough, a rant or complaint is a secret wish. Which means, instead of saying, “you bloody moron, stop it or I’ll kick your face in,” the real message is, “I wish you hadn’t done that and that you stop doing it,” which allows for a nice approach such as, “please don’t do that, instead please do this.” And Bob is your uncle. :)

      ***

      To everyone: this is a nice place. Please be respectful and polite, and your own as well as other people’s experience will be great. Have fun, enjoy modding and keep up the good work. It’s inspiring to see all these cool mods and how many people participate in all this. I enjoy visiting this site.

      Thank you all. :)

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